<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Thomas,<div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Am 15.11.2017 um 11:11 schrieb Thomas Munker <<a href="mailto:t.munker@gmx.net" class="">t.munker@gmx.net</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
how complicate is it, to add some sort of button?<br class="">
I would prefer a non mechanic one, i think they are capacity-based read out, simple metal plates.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>A capacitive sensor is more difficult. It needs an additional chip (for example <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">MTCH101-I/OT from MicroChip looks good),</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">and additional passive components all </span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">properly wired up. And some space for a touch area.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">It might even be bigger and more expensive than a simple push button like Panasonic </span><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">EVQ-Q2Y03W.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">And a mechanical button is more reliable and gives tactile feedback.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">So I'd prefer a mechanical one. Just one component :)</font></div><div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">I like the idea, that the key should only provide crypto operations, when it is touched. I guess, the mainwork would have to be done on SW-side. to achieve that kind of functionality.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Yes.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""> But since hardware is not so easy changeable, it would have to provide the capability already. <br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Yes!</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">
I know that this is not as safe as a key-pin, but for some low priority things i would prefer such a mechanism.<br class="">
<br class="">
How do you want to work with the original author and community of FST01/Gnuk? Will they support/work with us and get some financial support for sold sticks? Maybe they would be glad if their child will get a new production batch run and add to our orders.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Good question. Especially if there is a need for firmware upgrade (push-button) our community isn't the right one to work on this.</div><div>We should keep a focus on what we can and that is hardware and smartphone software.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Since I have no direct contact to the FST01 community I think someone who knows them better (and is ideally known by them)</div><div>should introduce this activity and establish the connection.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>BR,</div><div>Nikolaus</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">
<br class="">
Greets,<br class="">
Thomas<br class="">
<br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">Am 15. November 2017 09:40:26 MEZ schrieb Belisko Marek <<a href="mailto:marek.belisko@gmail.com" class="">marek.belisko@gmail.com</a>>:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Hi Nikolaus,<br class=""><br class="">On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:01 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <<a href="mailto:hns@goldelico.com" class="">hns@goldelico.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Marek,<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 15.11.2017 um 08:46 schrieb Belisko Marek <<a href="mailto:marek.belisko@gmail.com" class="">marek.belisko@gmail.com</a>>:<br class=""><br class=""> Hi Nikolaus,<br class=""><br class=""> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 5:33 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <<a href="mailto:hns@goldelico.com" class="">hns@goldelico.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Marek,<br class=""> this are nice findings!<br class=""><br class=""> Did I understand all that correctly that one just needs some 3.3V compatible UART plus host software?<br class=""><br class=""> The FST-01 hardware has three connector pads for<br class=""> * GND<br class=""> * SWCLK<br class=""> * SWDIO<br class=""><br class=""> where it is expected to connect the ST-link. These pin names look a little more like I2C than UART.<br class=""> Or are they dual-function?<br class=""></blockquote> According other app note:<br class=""> <a href="https://www.google.sk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyzaDIisDXAhVMfxoKHaALBx0QFggmMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fresource%2Fen%2Fapplication_note%2Fcd00167594.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0qX4Dmhs0QSw4vcuN33uhq" class="">https://www.google.sk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyzaDIisDXAhVMfxoKHaALBx0QFggmMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fresource%2Fen%2Fapplication_note%2Fcd00167594.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0qX4Dmhs0QSw4vcuN33uhq</a><br class=""> it looks like there are various pattern how to start bootloader stored<br class=""> in internal ROM (burn in production).<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""> This seems to be very similar to the BOOT options of the OMAP processors.<br class=""> One of them is well know to GTA04 users: the AUX button modifies boot sequence from NAND-MMC-UART to MMC-NAND-UART.<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> So maybe we will just need some<br class=""> jumper and connector to plug usb->uart converter and user can then<br class=""> easily update SW in stm32.<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><br class=""> And do we need to pull up/down some other pin to enable this programming protocol?<br class=""></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>I have at home some STM32 eval board with many uarts so I'll check<br class="">what is necessary to have bootloader running and get back with<br class="">results.<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><br class=""> Generally I'd like to avoid adding costly hardware which is rarely used.<br class=""> One thing is that it may well make the cost go up to 50€ per key...<br class=""> And the other is that it needs space making the key bigger.<br class=""></blockquote> So adding small connector (rx,tx,gnd) + maybe 1 jumper for force<br class=""> bootloader to start shouldn't be so expensive ;)<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""> Yes, that would be easy. Maybe we can use the standard FTDI-6pin UART connector like it is used for BeagleBone, Letux Cortex 8, PocketBone etc.<br class=""><br class=""> Do you know which pins we have to touch on the STM32F103TB (used by the FST-01)?<br class=""> The schematics shows BOOT0 and BOOT1 pins both tied to GND. And SWDIO and SWCLK are going to jumper.<br class=""><br class=""> Or can we even have the boot loader of the STM32F103TB watch USB?<br class=""><br class=""> Well, that would be some security risk since a rogue usb driver<br class=""> could reflash the crypto firmware without users noticing...<br class=""><br class=""> But a solution could be that flashing requires some solder blob on the PCB.<br class=""><br class=""> BR and thanks,<br class=""> Nikolaus<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><br class=""> BR,<br class=""> Nikolaus</blockquote><br class=""> BR,<br class=""><br class=""> marem<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #fcaf3e; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 14.11.2017 um 13:16 schrieb Belisko Marek <<a href="mailto:marek.belisko@gmail.com" class="">marek.belisko@gmail.com</a>>:<br class=""><br class=""> Hi,<br class=""><br class=""> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Belisko Marek <<a href="mailto:marek.belisko@gmail.com" class="">marek.belisko@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #e9b96e; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Nikolaus,<br class=""><br class=""> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:12 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller<br class=""> <<a href="mailto:hns@goldelico.com" class="">hns@goldelico.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Marek,<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 13.11.2017 um 11:45 schrieb Belisko Marek <<a href="mailto:marek.belisko@gmail.com" class="">marek.belisko@gmail.com</a>>:<br class=""><br class=""> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Belisko Marek <<a href="mailto:marek.belisko@gmail.com" class="">marek.belisko@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi,<br class=""><br class=""> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <<a href="mailto:hns@goldelico.com" class="">hns@goldelico.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi all,<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels <<a href="mailto:nift@maclisp.org" class="">nift@maclisp.org</a>>:<br class=""><br class=""> "H. Nikolaus Schaller" <<a href="mailto:hns@goldelico.com" class="">hns@goldelico.com</a>> writes:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Paul,<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 03.11.2017 um 13:06 schrieb Paul Boddie <<a href="mailto:paul@boddie.org.uk" class="">paul@boddie.org.uk</a>>:<br class=""><br class=""> On Friday 3. November 2017 10.54.44 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 03.11.2017 um 10:32 schrieb Thomas Munker <<a href="mailto:t.munker@gmx.net" class="">t.munker@gmx.net</a>>:<br class=""><br class=""> i would like to see some small cryptographic hardware, like eg. yubikey.<br class=""> At best easy interfaceable to gta02/gta04 or with necessary interface<br class=""> hardware<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""> I have checked what they have:<br class=""><br class=""> <a href="https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series" class="">https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series</a>/<br class=""> <<a href="https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series" class="">https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series</a>/><br class=""><br class=""> It seems they offer USB-A and USB-C. So neither Mini nor Micro-USB. So it<br class=""> needs a proper adapter.<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""> There is an article on <a href="http://lwn.net/" class="">LWN.net</a> about these devices and others:<br class=""><br class=""> <a href="https://lwn.net/Articles/736231" class="">https://lwn.net/Articles/736231</a>/<br class=""><br class=""> It covers the Yubikey NEO and Yubikey 4 plus the Nitrokey Pro and FST-01.<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""> Interesting reading!<br class=""><br class=""> To me it looks as if it would best fit our community to simply build<br class=""> enough FST-01 units, so that they are not out of stock...<br class=""><br class=""> Everything is said to be free and open, even if the device isn't the fastest one:<br class=""><br class=""> <a href="https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01" class="">https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01</a><br class=""> <a href="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png" class="">https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png</a><br class=""><br class=""> So it looks not very difficult to have them produced and stocked by us at<br class=""> a reasonable price.<br class=""></blockquote></blockquote><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><br class=""> I agree.<br class=""><br class=""> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to<br class=""> buy one.<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""> I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to prepare for<br class=""> producing some clone...<br class=""><br class=""> Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for tiny<br class=""> quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to provide<br class=""> permanent supply.<br class=""><br class=""> What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected to<br class=""> a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.<br class=""><br class=""> One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:<br class=""><br class=""> Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so that<br class=""> it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?<br class=""><br class=""> Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does someone have<br class=""> an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?<br class=""><br class=""> USB-C makes no sense IMHO, because then a much faster processor with USB3 speed<br class=""> should be used... This would be a completely different project.<br class=""><br class=""> So what can be the next steps?<br class=""> * I await your comments and comments about being interested<br class=""> * maybe someone should take care about the programming procedures<br class=""></blockquote> I have experience with programming stm32 (there exists stm32uart<br class=""> utility which can burn SW) but in this case I'm unsure.<br class=""> Does stm32 boot from external spi flash or external spi flash is used<br class=""> for something else?<br class=""></blockquote> In meantime I found that it's possible via ST-link only:<br class=""> <a href="http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01" class="">http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01</a>/<br class=""> also here: <a href="http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html" class="">http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html</a><br class=""> so if we do new design maybe would be good to add for user possibility<br class=""> to update FW.<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""> Nice finding!<br class=""><br class=""> Well, this would mean that we have to clone the ST-link device (where I have not<br class=""> yet an idea what is inside) and add another USB socket.<br class=""><br class=""> But there seem to be clones:<br class=""><br class=""> <a href="https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR&vip=2275155&gclid=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE" class="">https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR&vip=2275155&gclid=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE</a><br class=""></blockquote> We can use stm32 serial bootloader which should be present in any<br class=""> stm32. Here is application note:<br class=""> <a href="http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf" class="">http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf</a><br class=""> and also here is small program which can be used to burn image to<br class=""> stm32 via serial bootloader: <a href="https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32ld" class="">https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32ld</a><br class=""></blockquote> And we can also use FOSS solution (from same guy who did FST-01) :<br class=""> <a href="https://www.hackster.io/gniibe/bbg-swd-93bcea" class="">https://www.hackster.io/gniibe/bbg-swd-93bcea</a><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #e9b96e; padding-left: 1ex;"><br class=""> So we don't need ST-link programmed/debugger ;).<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><br class=""> Hm. Well, the ST-Link device is another Microcontroller with built-in firmware.<br class=""> So how do we flash that :)<br class=""></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>BR,<br class=""><br class="">marek<br class=""><hr class=""><br class="">Community mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Community@tinkerphones.org" class="">Community@tinkerphones.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community" class="">http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community</a><br class=""><a href="http://www.tinkerphones.org/" class="">http://www.tinkerphones.org</a></pre></blockquote></div><br class="">
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