<html><head></head><body>Hi,<br>
<br>
how complicate is it, to add some sort of button?<br>
I would prefer a non mechanic one, i think they are capacity-based read out, simple metal plates.<br>
<br>
I like the idea, that the key should only provide crypto operations, when it is touched. I guess, the mainwork would have to be done on SW-side. to achieve that kind of functionality. But since hardware is not so easy changeable, it would have to provide the capability already. <br>
I know that this is not as safe as a key-pin, but for some low priority things i would prefer such a mechanism.<br>
<br>
How do you want to work with the original author and community of FST01/Gnuk? Will they support/work with us and get some financial support for sold sticks? Maybe they would be glad if their child will get a new production batch run and add to our orders.<br>
<br>
Greets,<br>
Thomas<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Am 15. November 2017 09:40:26 MEZ schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko@gmail.com>:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Hi Nikolaus,<br /><br />On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:01 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com> wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Marek,<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 15.11.2017 um 08:46 schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko@gmail.com>:<br /><br /> Hi Nikolaus,<br /><br /> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 5:33 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com> wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Marek,<br /> this are nice findings!<br /><br /> Did I understand all that correctly that one just needs some 3.3V compatible UART plus host software?<br /><br /> The FST-01 hardware has three connector pads for<br /> * GND<br /> * SWCLK<br /> * SWDIO<br /><br /> where it is expected to connect the ST-link. These pin names look a little more like I2C than UART.<br /> Or are they dual-function?<br /></blockquote> According other app note:<br /> <a href="https://www.google.sk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyzaDIisDXAhVMfxoKHaALBx0QFggmMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fresource%2Fen%2Fapplication_note%2Fcd00167594.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0qX4Dmhs0QSw4vcuN33uhq">https://www.google.sk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyzaDIisDXAhVMfxoKHaALBx0QFggmMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fresource%2Fen%2Fapplication_note%2Fcd00167594.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0qX4Dmhs0QSw4vcuN33uhq</a><br /> it looks like there are various pattern how to start bootloader stored<br /> in internal ROM (burn in production).<br /></blockquote><br /> This seems to be very similar to the BOOT options of the OMAP processors.<br /> One of them is well know to GTA04 users: the AUX button modifies boot sequence from NAND-MMC-UART to MMC-NAND-UART.<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> So maybe we will just need some<br /> jumper and connector to plug usb->uart converter and user can then<br /> easily update SW in stm32.<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> And do we need to pull up/down some other pin to enable this programming protocol?<br /></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>I have at home some STM32 eval board with many uarts so I'll check<br />what is necessary to have bootloader running and get back with<br />results.<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> Generally I'd like to avoid adding costly hardware which is rarely used.<br /> One thing is that it may well make the cost go up to 50€ per key...<br /> And the other is that it needs space making the key bigger.<br /></blockquote> So adding small connector (rx,tx,gnd) + maybe 1 jumper for force<br /> bootloader to start shouldn't be so expensive ;)<br /></blockquote><br /> Yes, that would be easy. Maybe we can use the standard FTDI-6pin UART connector like it is used for BeagleBone, Letux Cortex 8, PocketBone etc.<br /><br /> Do you know which pins we have to touch on the STM32F103TB (used by the FST-01)?<br /> The schematics shows BOOT0 and BOOT1 pins both tied to GND. And SWDIO and SWCLK are going to jumper.<br /><br /> Or can we even have the boot loader of the STM32F103TB watch USB?<br /><br /> Well, that would be some security risk since a rogue usb driver<br /> could reflash the crypto firmware without users noticing...<br /><br /> But a solution could be that flashing requires some solder blob on the PCB.<br /><br /> BR and thanks,<br /> Nikolaus<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> BR,<br /> Nikolaus</blockquote><br /> BR,<br /><br /> marem<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #fcaf3e; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 14.11.2017 um 13:16 schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko@gmail.com>:<br /><br /> Hi,<br /><br /> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Belisko Marek <marek.belisko@gmail.com> wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #e9b96e; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Nikolaus,<br /><br /> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:12 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller<br /> <hns@goldelico.com> wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Marek,<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 13.11.2017 um 11:45 schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko@gmail.com>:<br /><br /> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Belisko Marek <marek.belisko@gmail.com> wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi,<br /><br /> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com> wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi all,<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels <nift@maclisp.org>:<br /><br /> "H. Nikolaus Schaller" <hns@goldelico.com> writes:<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Paul,<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 03.11.2017 um 13:06 schrieb Paul Boddie <paul@boddie.org.uk>:<br /><br /> On Friday 3. November 2017 10.54.44 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"> Am 03.11.2017 um 10:32 schrieb Thomas Munker <t.munker@gmx.net>:<br /><br /> i would like to see some small cryptographic hardware, like eg. yubikey.<br /> At best easy interfaceable to gta02/gta04 or with necessary interface<br /> hardware<br /></blockquote><br /> I have checked what they have:<br /><br /> <a href="https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series">https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series</a>/<br /> <<a href="https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series">https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series</a>/><br /><br /> It seems they offer USB-A and USB-C. So neither Mini nor Micro-USB. So it<br /> needs a proper adapter.<br /></blockquote><br /> There is an article on <a href="http://LWN.net">LWN.net</a> about these devices and others:<br /><br /> <a href="https://lwn.net/Articles/736231">https://lwn.net/Articles/736231</a>/<br /><br /> It covers the Yubikey NEO and Yubikey 4 plus the Nitrokey Pro and FST-01.<br /></blockquote><br /> Interesting reading!<br /><br /> To me it looks as if it would best fit our community to simply build<br /> enough FST-01 units, so that they are not out of stock...<br /><br /> Everything is said to be free and open, even if the device isn't the fastest one:<br /><br /> <a href="https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01">https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01</a><br /> <a href="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png">https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png</a><br /><br /> So it looks not very difficult to have them produced and stocked by us at<br /> a reasonable price.<br /></blockquote></blockquote><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> I agree.<br /><br /> I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to<br /> buy one.<br /></blockquote><br /> I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to prepare for<br /> producing some clone...<br /><br /> Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for tiny<br /> quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to provide<br /> permanent supply.<br /><br /> What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected to<br /> a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.<br /><br /> One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:<br /><br /> Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so that<br /> it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?<br /><br /> Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does someone have<br /> an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?<br /><br /> USB-C makes no sense IMHO, because then a much faster processor with USB3 speed<br /> should be used... This would be a completely different project.<br /><br /> So what can be the next steps?<br /> * I await your comments and comments about being interested<br /> * maybe someone should take care about the programming procedures<br /></blockquote> I have experience with programming stm32 (there exists stm32uart<br /> utility which can burn SW) but in this case I'm unsure.<br /> Does stm32 boot from external spi flash or external spi flash is used<br /> for something else?<br /></blockquote> In meantime I found that it's possible via ST-link only:<br /> <a href="http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01">http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01</a>/<br /> also here: <a href="http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html">http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html</a><br /> so if we do new design maybe would be good to add for user possibility<br /> to update FW.<br /></blockquote><br /> Nice finding!<br /><br /> Well, this would mean that we have to clone the ST-link device (where I have not<br /> yet an idea what is inside) and add another USB socket.<br /><br /> But there seem to be clones:<br /><br /> <a href="https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR&vip=2275155&gclid=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE">https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR&vip=2275155&gclid=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE</a><br /></blockquote> We can use stm32 serial bootloader which should be present in any<br /> stm32. Here is application note:<br /> <a href="http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf">http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf</a><br /> and also here is small program which can be used to burn image to<br /> stm32 via serial bootloader: <a href="https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32ld">https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32ld</a><br /></blockquote> And we can also use FOSS solution (from same guy who did FST-01) :<br /> <a href="https://www.hackster.io/gniibe/bbg-swd-93bcea">https://www.hackster.io/gniibe/bbg-swd-93bcea</a><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #e9b96e; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> So we don't need ST-link programmed/debugger ;).<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> Hm. Well, the ST-Link device is another Microcontroller with built-in firmware.<br /> So how do we flash that :)<br /></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>BR,<br /><br />marek<br /><hr /><br />Community mailing list<br />Community@tinkerphones.org<br /><a href="http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community">http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community</a><br /><a href="http://www.tinkerphones.org">http://www.tinkerphones.org</a></pre></blockquote></div><br>
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