<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>Am 17.01.2014 um 10:56 schrieb Radek Polak:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="font-family: 'DejaVu Sans Mono'; font-size: 9pt; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; "><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">On Friday, January 17, 2014 09:57:55 AM Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:</div><p style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; "> </p><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> > I'm still very suspicious of the internal USB driver which is documented</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> > as now allowing the OMAP3 to go to sleep properly....</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> Yes, that might indeed be a key issue. But if it is the USB-PHY interface</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> or the EHCI within the OMAP3 SoC we can't measure anything and cut any</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> wire (on silicon).</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> One more thought why this issue is so difficult to work on. Because it</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> needs a reproducible setup to compare different things. This starts with a</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> controlled hardware setup, network coverage (because the modem may draw</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> 100mA even if the CPU is off when trying to answer the base station),</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> software setup.</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> And, such experiments need a lot of time. E.g. compile new kernels to try</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> something. Flash a new SD card. Reboot. Then start measurements and</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> compare results.</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> The results may be difficult to interpret, so the person doing this</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> research has to study manuals, read web postings, and must get a 100%</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> understanding of the interworkings.</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> This asks for a very big table, a test object GTA04 (not used for anything</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> else every day) and a separate computer to control measurements and kernel</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> variants. And an operator who can work on just this topic without major</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> interruptions.</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> Even then it may take weeks to get to the 100% understanding.</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> This is how big design labs like Nokia worked to develop the N900.</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> IMHO this is comparable with scientific research, trying to answer</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> challenging questions: * "Why do neutrinos oscillate?"</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> * "Why does it not go down below 10 mA in suspend"</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> You alternately build theories, try to verify/falsify by experiments and</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> improve your theory until you can say: "we have to do this and that to</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> make it better".</div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> </div><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">> And you need some luck. Sometimes by doing the wrong experiment.</div><p style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; "> </p><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">Yes it seems like difficult problem, but Openmoko, Nokia and every phone maker has managed to at least partially solve this (GTA02 has ~6mA in suspend, N900 even less).</div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>Yes, no doubt that it can be solved. With a handful of paid full-time engineers and with big budget.</div><div><br></div><div>For the GTA02 I am not sure if it was Openmoko, Inc. or the community.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="font-family: 'DejaVu Sans Mono'; font-size: 9pt; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; "><p style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; "> </p><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">I have no electrical skills, but i'd make sure:</div><p style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; "> </p><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">1/ when device is off it eats ~0 mA</div></div></span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="font-family: 'DejaVu Sans Mono'; font-size: 9pt; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; "><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">2/ with just modem turned on ~3 mA</div><p style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; "> </p><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">IIRC the values for 1/ and 2/ are currently very strange (somewhere around 20mA?).</div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>Then your board must be broken, because we have made that sure 3 years ago... It was one of the first steps when bringing up the boards and testing if the components are the right ones.</div><div><br></div><div>All measurements I have done show</div><div><br></div><div>1/<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>~0mA</div><div>2/<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>between 3 and 100 mA (100mA temporarily if there is some communication with the base station) - this current depends heavily on antenna position and distance to base station</div><div><br></div><div>But I can test it again if you think it is not so.</div><div><br></div><div>2/ may be a higher if the IrDA module is installed. This is a well known problem of the GTA04A4 and will be fixed in A5.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="font-family: 'DejaVu Sans Mono'; font-size: 9pt; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; "><p style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; "> </p><div style="white-space: pre-wrap; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; text-indent: 0px; ">Btw i can provide my first GTA04 board for testing if needed - i have no use for it.</div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>It is less a problem finding a board but a person determined to solve the issues.</div><div><br></div><div>BR,</div><div>Nikoalaus</div></body></html>