[Community] Growing the Community

Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller hns at goldelico.com
Mon Jun 24 15:51:19 CEST 2013

Am 18.06.2013 um 23:36 schrieb kardan:

> Hi,
>>>>>>> Here is the acid test I think any phone needs to pass in order
>>>>>> to be successful: you must be able to take the phone out of the
>>>>>> box, stick a SIM card in, charge the phone, start using it
>>>>>> fully, stick it in your pocket, and never, for the entirety of
>>>>>> the life of the hardware, update any software on it to a newer
>>>>>> version.
> 1) ready to use at buy time +1
> 2) I think we as developers are used to updates, debian users as well,
> windows users even more and as far as I can see usual (closed source)
> phone apps deliver new version more often also.
> Traditionally we think of updates as security fixes. Why not spreading
> the term of usability improvements for updates (of course there need to
> be some first :)
> Internet access is more and more available for phone users, so it's not
> a problem to use them for updates. As a debian user I trust the apt
> tools and would even allow them to run automatically (this is not true
> for ubuntu where updates broke anything a lot of times). The software
> should be clever to search for available wifi nets and use them in my
> eyes. As long as the user cared for security and encrypted connection
> for checking mails, browsing etc., there should be no problem in using
> potentially sniffed nets (as we all know nearly the whole internet is
> sniffed in some way).
>> If it is distributed on SD card you can even choose between an old
>> image and a new image without damaging anything. So IMHO it is not
>> even a contradiction...
> That is a nice feature. One could order a simcard for the GTA02 with
> latest qtmoko and useful 'apps' from you then.
>> This is why the http://download.goldelico.com/gta04/ has been
>> organized as an archive. The plan is to never delete images so that
>> you can always restore to the one that was delivered.
> I like the debian approach for backports. As I understand it, the
> version can change, but not the package name stays. In that way you
> can offer security fixes and (hopefully one day) usability upgrades
> that persist for decades.
>> But if you expect software in a quality that it is bug free and nobody
>> finds a significant bug within 10 years, it needs a completely
>> different development process compared to communites, open source and
>> git...
> For me this is not true. But it's nice to go to the jungle with OM in a
> a pocket, a solar panel on my hat with the confidence, it
> will work for the rest of my life.
>> The latter are based on the assumption "if we introduce a regression,
>> you can fix it in the next release in 4 weeks or fork your own
>> distro".
> As long as developers are responsive and care, this is no issue IMHO.
> When users are delivered with good a README or a C CRASHCOURSE FOR
> BASIC DEBUGGING AND ERROR FIXING etc. I expect the community to grow
> rapidly.
>> We would need development processes like in aviation industries. And,
>> even on deep space missions they can field upgrade the software (e.g.
>> Voyager communication technology was improved in data rate over
>> the years by software upgrades).
>> So I think it is a nice dream, but do we need such a high goal to
>> give a significant contribution to freedom of mankind? Or do we need
>> to be better than all the other devices out there? And can we achieve
>> this at all?
> We need updates and testers as a basic to keep the GTA02 alive.
> http://download.goldelico.com/gta02

This is not the official gta02 work repository. It is just some snapshot.

The gta04 repositroies on the same server are official.

>> E.g. QtMoko is seen by the owners as the most usable distribution we
>> have. But as others already said, it is not complete and sometimes
>> still has rough edges. Replicant is still fighting a little with
>> power management. Etc.
> http://qtmoko.org/ seems to be spam now :(

The official page for this project is:


The .org domain was highjacked by someone. So please don't spread
any links to it!

After a while they may think it is no longer worth paying for registration.

>> That's not exactly true. Each project has it's issue tracker, which is
>> used in a more or less frequent way:
>> QtMoko: https://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/issues
>> Replicant: http://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/issues
>> SHR: http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/report/1
>> FSO: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/report/1
> The best news since years, that is xmas. Thanks! :)
> Cloning big repositories with a slow connection is pain, but there is a
> comfortable solution i just found out to package it first:
> http://bundler.caurea.org/bundle/51c066fe9a23a56a7800002f
> The certificate is not issued for this domain though.
> Tizen looks interesting as well. Did anybody test it?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen
> As it is derived from maemo which went away from debian using rpm, some
> say it is more a big player game "supported by leading mobile
> operators, device manufacturers, and chip suppliers for multiple device
> categories, including smartphones, tablets, netbooks, in-vehicle
> infotainment devices, and smart TVs" [1] (LinuxFoundation, Samsung,
> Intel, LiMo - " a consortium of companies including Panasonic Mobile
> Communications, NTT DoCoMo and SK Telecom, among others", [2]).
> Kardan
> [1]
> https://www.tizen.org/blogs/tsg/2013/tizen-2.1-sdk-and-source-code-release
> [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/2013/04/msg00048.html
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