[Gta04-owner] Openmoko Community Survey 2011 – Results

Flemming Richter Mikkelsen quatrox at gmail.com
Mon Jan 16 16:57:08 CET 2012

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 16:21, Michael Born <Michael.Born at aei.mpg.de> wrote:
> Hello Openmoko experts.
> I'm no hardware or software expert, but I'm interested in the open gta04.
> Am 16.01.2012 08:53, schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller:
>> The discussion of the poll run by Lukas suggested to ask for acceptable
>> prices for a new Openmoko device.
>>>>> Openmoko Community Survey 2011 – please take part!
>>>>> We decided to start a poll about which hardware and which software you
>>>>> use or are interested in these days. The results will help us to
>>>>> focus on relevant hard-/software.
> I read that survey and could not understand it :-(
> I currently use a rather old Nokia phone (just SMS and phone calls). The
> software choices were even more unclear to me. What are their
> differences (for me as a dumb user)?
>>> Making a price poll is a good idea! We may learn how to better size
>>> and define the price for the next group tour.
>> Here are the results (which I think are quite significant):
>> Q1: What would be the maximum price at which you immediately
>>       would buy a GTA04 Complete device (considering its high-end
>>       feature set)?
>>       ____ EUR (incl. sales tax if applicable)
>> Q2: What would be the maximum price at which you grudgingly
>>       (unwillingly) would still buy a GTA04 Complete device, if it is
>>       not available at the price said above?
>>       ____ EUR (incl. sales tax if applicable)
>> Let me describe my first observations from these figures (not deeply
>> elaborated):
>> 3. at the current price of the GTA04 group tour (450-500 EUR range) we
>> can expect approx. 30% buyers. This would still mean 6000 of the originally
>> sold GTA02 devices. Hm. We are still far away from this figure with
>> subscriptions. What are the reasons?
> The reasons for me to not order the gta04, yet.
> 1. Following your link to the price survey, I found your offer for a
> complete gta04 - for the first time. Up to now I thought I have to buy
> the gta04 board from you and then buy a case, antenna, display,... from
> other sources. I follow the interesting 3d printing a gta04 case
> discussion, but I did not see a list where to get the remaining parts to
> make a real phone out of the gta04 board. For me as a user - I need a
> complete phone.
> 2. The phone should be able to solve basic "phone" tasks. On the list
> there are topics like "3.2 kernel up and running" or "some power saving
> is improved". I would like to see a minimal goal for the software. For
> me this would include:
> - phone calls work
> - sms works
> - battery on/stand-by times are announced
> - all hardware features are working (maybe a small test program for
> every feature is provided)
> This milestone should be published through as many news portals as
> possible. (of course the sophisticated features should be
> mentioned/shown, but the important thing to me is: gta04 is basically
> working) (A friend of mine had a gta02 and could barely use it for quite
> some time. I will not spend €500 on a phone that can't be used)
> Maybe my reasons are an explanation why the subscriptions are behind
> expectations.

I have friends (GTA02 owners) that say they will not order because they do
not have to play with the device (to make it work).

I think many may share your views.

I know there are many distros available and I believe at least one should be
able to provide stable phone usage but maybe not on every "release".

Therefore, I think you may need to accept that there might be images that
works, but upgrading can introduce a risk.

I think (and hope) that we can provide a list with well known working images
when the experts got the platform fully supported... I cannot say how long
this will take, but they don't start from scratch (as many distros now exists
for GTA02).

>> 4. a final observation is that I have to conclude that some of us have
>> no realistic perception of the market prices.
>> More than 40% would not want to pay more than 200-250 EUR
>> for a complete GTA04 (even with case etc.).
>> This makes me really puzzled as the GTA02 was never sold cheaper
>> than 199 EUR. Isn't getting UMTS, fast 3D graphics any value to the
>> majority of the Openmoko community?
>> The cheapest UMTS Android 2.2 device I can currently get in
>> Germany is at 129 EUR (most likely from some overstock clearance).
>> Has a 320x240 display, no sensors, no free and open software. No
>> hardware description, no schematics. Appears to be crap and much
>> less featured than the GTA04. But the poll result indicates this is the
>> way we should go. Really?
>> I wnder how the community thinks it can be done at such low prices?
>> One answer (that I don't like at all) could be:
>>       http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-child-labor-2012-1
>> So please prove my last observation and conclusion to be wrong.
> Maybe, they are not interested in the sophisticated features of the
> gta04, but like the idea of an open phone?
> You also did not ask what the person thinks, the gta04 costs to be
> produced. The small amount of money could be what the person would be
> able to spend for a phone.

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