[Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

Belisko Marek marek.belisko at gmail.com
Mon Nov 27 11:51:41 CET 2017


Hi All,

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 2:55 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns at goldelico.com> wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Am 15.11.2017 um 11:11 schrieb Thomas Munker <t.munker at gmx.net>:
>
> Hi,
>
> how complicate is it, to add some sort of button?
> I would prefer a non mechanic one, i think they are capacity-based read out,
> simple metal plates.
>
>
> A capacitive sensor is more difficult. It needs an additional chip (for
> example MTCH101-I/OT from MicroChip looks good),
> and additional passive components all properly wired up. And some space for
> a touch area.
>
> It might even be bigger and more expensive than a simple push button like
> Panasonic EVQ-Q2Y03W.
> And a mechanical button is more reliable and gives tactile feedback.
>
> So I'd prefer a mechanical one. Just one component :)
>
> I like the idea, that the key should only provide crypto operations, when it
> is touched. I guess, the mainwork would have to be done on SW-side. to
> achieve that kind of functionality.
>
>
> Yes.
>
> But since hardware is not so easy changeable, it would have to provide the
> capability already.
>
>
> Yes!
>
> I know that this is not as safe as a key-pin, but for some low priority
> things i would prefer such a mechanism.
>
> How do you want to work with the original author and community of
> FST01/Gnuk? Will they support/work with us and get some financial support
> for sold sticks? Maybe they would be glad if their child will get a new
> production batch run and add to our orders.
>
>
> Good question. Especially if there is a need for firmware upgrade
> (push-button) our community isn't the right one to work on this.
> We should keep a focus on what we can and that is hardware and smartphone
> software.
>
> Since I have no direct contact to the FST01 community I think someone who
> knows them better (and is ideally known by them)
> should introduce this activity and establish the connection.
Anybody willing to do what Nikolaus proposed? If not I can try to
establish some connection with FST01 community.
or somebody else already active and willing to do so? Just want to
recover communication to avoid putting this idea to dust :D
>
> BR,
> Nikolaus
>
>
> Greets,
> Thomas
>
>
> Am 15. November 2017 09:40:26 MEZ schrieb Belisko Marek
> <marek.belisko at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Hi Nikolaus,
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:01 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns at goldelico.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi Marek,
>>>
>>>>  Am 15.11.2017 um 08:46 schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Nikolaus,
>>>>
>>>>  On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 5:33 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller
>>>> <hns at goldelico.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Marek,
>>>>>  this are nice findings!
>>>>>
>>>>>  Did I understand all that correctly that one just needs some 3.3V
>>>>> compatible UART plus host software?
>>>>>
>>>>>  The FST-01 hardware has three connector pads for
>>>>>  * GND
>>>>>  * SWCLK
>>>>>  * SWDIO
>>>>>
>>>>>  where it is expected to connect the ST-link. These pin names look a
>>>>> little more like I2C than UART.
>>>>>  Or are they dual-function?
>>>>
>>>>  According other app note:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.sk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyzaDIisDXAhVMfxoKHaALBx0QFggmMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fresource%2Fen%2Fapplication_note%2Fcd00167594.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0qX4Dmhs0QSw4vcuN33uhq
>>>>  it looks like there are various pattern how to start bootloader stored
>>>>  in internal ROM (burn in production).
>>>
>>>
>>>  This seems to be very similar to the BOOT options of the OMAP
>>> processors.
>>>  One of them is well know to GTA04 users: the AUX button modifies boot
>>> sequence from NAND-MMC-UART to MMC-NAND-UART.
>>>
>>>>  So maybe we will just need some
>>>>  jumper and connector to plug usb->uart converter and user can then
>>>>  easily update SW in stm32.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  And do we need to pull up/down some other pin to enable this
>>>>> programming protocol?
>>
>> I have at home some STM32 eval board with many uarts so I'll check
>> what is necessary to have bootloader running and get back with
>> results.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Generally I'd like to avoid adding costly hardware which is rarely
>>>>> used.
>>>>>  One thing is that it may well make the cost go up to 50€ per key...
>>>>>  And the other is that it needs space making the key bigger.
>>>>
>>>>  So adding small connector (rx,tx,gnd) + maybe 1 jumper for force
>>>>  bootloader to start shouldn't be so expensive ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>  Yes, that would be easy. Maybe we can use the standard FTDI-6pin UART
>>> connector like it is used for BeagleBone, Letux Cortex 8, PocketBone etc.
>>>
>>>  Do you know which pins we have to touch on the STM32F103TB (used by the
>>> FST-01)?
>>>  The schematics shows BOOT0 and BOOT1 pins both tied to GND. And SWDIO
>>> and SWCLK are going to jumper.
>>>
>>>  Or can we even have the boot loader of the STM32F103TB watch USB?
>>>
>>>  Well, that would be some security risk since a rogue usb driver
>>>  could reflash the crypto firmware without users noticing...
>>>
>>>  But a solution could be that flashing requires some solder blob on the
>>> PCB.
>>>
>>>  BR and thanks,
>>>  Nikolaus
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  BR,
>>>>>  Nikolaus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  BR,
>>>>
>>>>  marem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Am 14.11.2017 um 13:16 schrieb Belisko Marek
>>>>>> <marek.belisko at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Belisko Marek
>>>>>> <marek.belisko at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Hi Nikolaus,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:12 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller
>>>>>>>  <hns at goldelico.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Hi Marek,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Am 13.11.2017 um 11:45 schrieb Belisko Marek
>>>>>>>>> <marek.belisko at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Belisko Marek
>>>>>>>>> <marek.belisko at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller
>>>>>>>>>> <hns at goldelico.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels <nift at maclisp.org>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  "H. Nikolaus Schaller" <hns at goldelico.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Hi Paul,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Am 03.11.2017 um 13:06 schrieb Paul Boddie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <paul at boddie.org.uk>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Friday 3. November 2017 10.54.44 H. Nikolaus Schaller
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Am 03.11.2017 um 10:32 schrieb Thomas Munker
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <t.munker at gmx.net>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  i would like to see some small cryptographic hardware, like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eg. yubikey.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  At best easy interfaceable to gta02/gta04 or with necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  hardware
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I have checked what they have:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  <https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  It seems they offer USB-A and USB-C. So neither Mini nor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Micro-USB. So it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  needs a proper adapter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  There is an article on LWN.net about these devices and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  https://lwn.net/Articles/736231/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  It covers the Yubikey NEO and Yubikey 4 plus the Nitrokey Pro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and FST-01.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Interesting reading!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  To me it looks as if it would best fit our community to simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  enough FST-01 units, so that they are not out of stock...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Everything is said to be free and open, even if the device
>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't the fastest one:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  So it looks not very difficult to have them produced and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stocked by us at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  a reasonable price.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  I agree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any
>>>>>>>>>>>> place to
>>>>>>>>>>>>  buy one.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day
>>>>>>>>>>> to prepare for
>>>>>>>>>>>  producing some clone...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible
>>>>>>>>>>> for tiny
>>>>>>>>>>>  quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to
>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>  permanent supply.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be
>>>>>>>>>>> connected to
>>>>>>>>>>>  a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an
>>>>>>>>>>> Mini-USB-A so that
>>>>>>>>>>>  it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does
>>>>>>>>>>> someone have
>>>>>>>>>>>  an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  USB-C makes no sense IMHO, because then a much faster processor
>>>>>>>>>>> with USB3 speed
>>>>>>>>>>>  should be used... This would be a completely different project.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  So what can be the next steps?
>>>>>>>>>>>  * I await your comments and comments about being interested
>>>>>>>>>>>  * maybe someone should take care about the programming
>>>>>>>>>>> procedures
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  I have experience with programming stm32 (there exists stm32uart
>>>>>>>>>>  utility which can burn SW) but in this case I'm unsure.
>>>>>>>>>>  Does stm32 boot from external spi flash or external spi flash is
>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>  for something else?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  In meantime I found that it's possible via ST-link only:
>>>>>>>>>  http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01/
>>>>>>>>>  also here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html
>>>>>>>>>  so if we do new design maybe would be good to add for user
>>>>>>>>> possibility
>>>>>>>>>  to update FW.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Nice finding!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Well, this would mean that we have to clone the ST-link device
>>>>>>>> (where I have not
>>>>>>>>  yet an idea what is inside) and add another USB socket.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  But there seem to be clones:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR&vip=2275155&gclid=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  We can use stm32 serial bootloader which should be present in any
>>>>>>>  stm32. Here is application note:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf
>>>>>>>  and also here is small program which can be used to burn image to
>>>>>>>  stm32 via serial bootloader: https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32ld
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  And we can also use FOSS solution (from same guy who did FST-01) :
>>>>>>  https://www.hackster.io/gniibe/bbg-swd-93bcea
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  So we don't need ST-link programmed/debugger ;).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Hm. Well, the ST-Link device is another Microcontroller with
>>>>>>>> built-in firmware.
>>>>>>>>  So how do we flash that :)
>>
>> BR,
>>
>> marek
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>>
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>
>
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BR,

marek

-- 
as simple and primitive as possible
-------------------------------------------------
Marek Belisko - OPEN-NANDRA
Freelance Developer

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