[Tinkerphones] New tinkerphone gadgets in Goldelico shop?

H. Nikolaus Schaller hns at goldelico.com
Wed Nov 15 14:55:49 CET 2017


Hi Thomas,

> Am 15.11.2017 um 11:11 schrieb Thomas Munker <t.munker at gmx.net>:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> how complicate is it, to add some sort of button?
> I would prefer a non mechanic one, i think they are capacity-based read out, simple metal plates.

A capacitive sensor is more difficult. It needs an additional chip (for example MTCH101-I/OT from MicroChip looks good),
and additional passive components all properly wired up. And some space for a touch area.

It might even be bigger and more expensive than a simple push button like Panasonic EVQ-Q2Y03W.
And a mechanical button is more reliable and gives tactile feedback.

So I'd prefer a mechanical one. Just one component :)

> I like the idea, that the key should only provide crypto operations, when it is touched. I guess, the mainwork would have to be done on SW-side. to achieve that kind of functionality.

Yes.

> But since hardware is not so easy changeable, it would have to provide the capability already. 

Yes!

> I know that this is not as safe as a key-pin, but for some low priority things i would prefer such a mechanism.
> 
> How do you want to work with the original author and community of FST01/Gnuk? Will they support/work with us and get some financial support for sold sticks? Maybe they would be glad if their child will get a new production batch run and add to our orders.

Good question. Especially if there is a need for firmware upgrade (push-button) our community isn't the right one to work on this.
We should keep a focus on what we can and that is hardware and smartphone software.

Since I have no direct contact to the FST01 community I think someone who knows them better (and is ideally known by them)
should introduce this activity and establish the connection.

BR,
Nikolaus

> 
> Greets,
> Thomas
> 
> 
> Am 15. November 2017 09:40:26 MEZ schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko at gmail.com>:
> Hi Nikolaus,
> 
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:01 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns at goldelico.com> wrote:
>  Hi Marek,
> 
>  Am 15.11.2017 um 08:46 schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko at gmail.com>:
> 
>  Hi Nikolaus,
> 
>  On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 5:33 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns at goldelico.com> wrote:
>  Hi Marek,
>  this are nice findings!
> 
>  Did I understand all that correctly that one just needs some 3.3V compatible UART plus host software?
> 
>  The FST-01 hardware has three connector pads for
>  * GND
>  * SWCLK
>  * SWDIO
> 
>  where it is expected to connect the ST-link. These pin names look a little more like I2C than UART.
>  Or are they dual-function?
>  According other app note:
>  https://www.google.sk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyzaDIisDXAhVMfxoKHaALBx0QFggmMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fresource%2Fen%2Fapplication_note%2Fcd00167594.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0qX4Dmhs0QSw4vcuN33uhq <https://www.google.sk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyzaDIisDXAhVMfxoKHaALBx0QFggmMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fresource%2Fen%2Fapplication_note%2Fcd00167594.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0qX4Dmhs0QSw4vcuN33uhq>
>  it looks like there are various pattern how to start bootloader stored
>  in internal ROM (burn in production).
> 
>  This seems to be very similar to the BOOT options of the OMAP processors.
>  One of them is well know to GTA04 users: the AUX button modifies boot sequence from NAND-MMC-UART to MMC-NAND-UART.
> 
>  So maybe we will just need some
>  jumper and connector to plug usb->uart converter and user can then
>  easily update SW in stm32.
> 
>  And do we need to pull up/down some other pin to enable this programming protocol?
> I have at home some STM32 eval board with many uarts so I'll check
> what is necessary to have bootloader running and get back with
> results.
> 
>  Generally I'd like to avoid adding costly hardware which is rarely used.
>  One thing is that it may well make the cost go up to 50€ per key...
>  And the other is that it needs space making the key bigger.
>  So adding small connector (rx,tx,gnd) + maybe 1 jumper for force
>  bootloader to start shouldn't be so expensive ;)
> 
>  Yes, that would be easy. Maybe we can use the standard FTDI-6pin UART connector like it is used for BeagleBone, Letux Cortex 8, PocketBone etc.
> 
>  Do you know which pins we have to touch on the STM32F103TB (used by the FST-01)?
>  The schematics shows BOOT0 and BOOT1 pins both tied to GND. And SWDIO and SWCLK are going to jumper.
> 
>  Or can we even have the boot loader of the STM32F103TB watch USB?
> 
>  Well, that would be some security risk since a rogue usb driver
>  could reflash the crypto firmware without users noticing...
> 
>  But a solution could be that flashing requires some solder blob on the PCB.
> 
>  BR and thanks,
>  Nikolaus
> 
> 
>  BR,
>  Nikolaus
> 
>  BR,
> 
>  marem
>  Am 14.11.2017 um 13:16 schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko at gmail.com>:
> 
>  Hi,
> 
>  On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Belisko Marek <marek.belisko at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi Nikolaus,
> 
>  On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:12 PM, H. Nikolaus Schaller
>  <hns at goldelico.com> wrote:
>  Hi Marek,
> 
>  Am 13.11.2017 um 11:45 schrieb Belisko Marek <marek.belisko at gmail.com>:
> 
>  On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Belisko Marek <marek.belisko at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
> 
>  On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns at goldelico.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
> 
>  Am 04.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Niels <nift at maclisp.org>:
> 
>  "H. Nikolaus Schaller" <hns at goldelico.com> writes:
> 
>  Hi Paul,
> 
>  Am 03.11.2017 um 13:06 schrieb Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk>:
> 
>  On Friday 3. November 2017 10.54.44 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
>  Am 03.11.2017 um 10:32 schrieb Thomas Munker <t.munker at gmx.net>:
> 
>  i would like to see some small cryptographic hardware, like eg. yubikey.
>  At best easy interfaceable to gta02/gta04 or with necessary interface
>  hardware
> 
>  I have checked what they have:
> 
>  https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series <https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series>/
>  <https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series <https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-4-series>/>
> 
>  It seems they offer USB-A and USB-C. So neither Mini nor Micro-USB. So it
>  needs a proper adapter.
> 
>  There is an article on LWN.net <http://lwn.net/> about these devices and others:
> 
>  https://lwn.net/Articles/736231 <https://lwn.net/Articles/736231>/
> 
>  It covers the Yubikey NEO and Yubikey 4 plus the Nitrokey Pro and FST-01.
> 
>  Interesting reading!
> 
>  To me it looks as if it would best fit our community to simply build
>  enough FST-01 units, so that they are not out of stock...
> 
>  Everything is said to be free and open, even if the device isn't the fastest one:
> 
>  https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01 <https://github.com/vinaebizs/fst-01>
>  https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png <https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SeeedDocument/FST-01/master/img/Fst-01-schematic.png>
> 
>  So it looks not very difficult to have them produced and stocked by us at
>  a reasonable price.
> 
> 
>  I agree.
> 
>  I have been wanting a FST-01 for a while, but not found any place to
>  buy one.
> 
>  I have studied the schematics and it will take less than 1 day to prepare for
>  producing some clone...
> 
>  Cost is also reasonable, e.g. something below 30€ seems feasible for tiny
>  quantities (if produced in batches of 10). So it is possible to provide
>  permanent supply.
> 
>  What I understood is that it needs some flashing tool to be connected to
>  a jumper. Maybe someone can elaborate this.
> 
>  One thing is to be discussed about the USB interface:
> 
>  Should we keep the USB-A plug or try to replace it by an Mini-USB-A so that
>  it can be directly plugged into a GTA0x?
> 
>  Or even 3 variants with Standard-USB, MiniUSB and µUSB? Or does someone have
>  an idea if multiple sockets are feasible?
> 
>  USB-C makes no sense IMHO, because then a much faster processor with USB3 speed
>  should be used... This would be a completely different project.
> 
>  So what can be the next steps?
>  * I await your comments and comments about being interested
>  * maybe someone should take care about the programming procedures
>  I have experience with programming stm32 (there exists stm32uart
>  utility which can burn SW) but in this case I'm unsure.
>  Does stm32 boot from external spi flash or external spi flash is used
>  for something else?
>  In meantime I found that it's possible via ST-link only:
>  http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01 <http://wiki.seeed.cc/FST-01>/
>  also here: http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html <http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/fst-01/dongle/fst-01-swd-connection.html>
>  so if we do new design maybe would be good to add for user possibility
>  to update FW.
> 
>  Nice finding!
> 
>  Well, this would mean that we have to clone the ST-link device (where I have not
>  yet an idea what is inside) and add another USB socket.
> 
>  But there seem to be clones:
> 
>  https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR&vip=2275155&gclid=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE <https://www.gearbest.com/development-boards/pp_62989.html?currency=EUR&vip=2275155&gclid=CjwKCAiAoqXQBRA8EiwAIIOWstP9pf8EWlN1SaHyGVUZzDDjkmMVt329W6Misb_BTv_HxOqSr28UMxoCQ_8QAvD_BwE>
>  We can use stm32 serial bootloader which should be present in any
>  stm32. Here is application note:
>  http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf <http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf>
>  and also here is small program which can be used to burn image to
>  stm32 via serial bootloader: https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32ld <https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32ld>
>  And we can also use FOSS solution (from same guy who did FST-01) :
>  https://www.hackster.io/gniibe/bbg-swd-93bcea <https://www.hackster.io/gniibe/bbg-swd-93bcea>
> 
>  So we don't need ST-link programmed/debugger ;).
> 
>  Hm. Well, the ST-Link device is another Microcontroller with built-in firmware.
>  So how do we flash that :)
> BR,
> 
> marek
> 
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