[Community] [OpenPhoenux Community] New cell phone design wanted?
garftd at verizon.net
Thu Apr 14 23:26:35 CEST 2016
On 04/09/2016 10:50 AM, Chris wrote:
> james wrote:
>> I'd be willing to code on that *organized* project, if it existed.
>> I want modern hardware and I'm willing to pay a lot more, as long
>> as I can put the software I want on the phone. In fact, I just prefer
>> to pay $1,000.00 usd and buy one and not have to 'venture' the phone.
>> So please let me know if such a phone exists.
> You could order one of those
> https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ to test your
> software developments for your use-case.
Hmmmm. Not bad for baseline hardware. Only, not to be rude, but
I hate systemd and therefor am done with debian. I'd rather a minimal
embedded linux, alpine or gentoo be installed on the box. If they
offered embedded linux, I'd probably get one for for grins, maybe more.
Where is the spec on the crital hardware, including the data-sheets so I
do not have to go looking?
> The next step, would be to evolve the pyra lessons (also community and
> software distributions) into a mobile phone form factor.
OK, I get agree with this approach, particularly if the device came with
embedded gentoo, right from the vendor. There is a very active
gentoo(arm) embedded channel, in case anyone wanted check it out::
Me, I'm a crusted up old hardware guy:: I hate irc as it appears as
noise to this old fart....
>> I can work with one or 2 folks to refine it to a specification. Then
>> we float the idea and see what kind of response we get.
>> I take the financial risks, I'm going to get my seed money back on
>> the first 5,000.00 phones.
> Please be aware that there are a couple of folks here that have also not
> just refined some specification but gone through from projecting
> prototypes to selling series of devices already.
Sounds great, maybe those folks should drop me an email on what they
have, what they are doing and where they are stuck. My team build
wireless cellular pay phones decades ago for the S. American market.
There are thousands of low volume products that embed cellular
capabilities, but they are not advertise as they are for niche markets.
> Want to seed?
What? go steady without the first date? Sounds too good. Seriously,
there is tons of money floating around, but I'm very selective about
who and how I 'hang' on deals. Still count me in, at least as a
peripheral player. Maybe more, depending on what I see an like. One
thing that is huge for me. Later, I need armv8 multi-core with ddr3/4
ram for an extended feature set, that I'm not willing to talk about just
yet. But building a baseline cellular dev/kit/dev/hack-box, sure I'm all
in on that and most willing to follow and keep my issues to a minimum.
> If you really want a more powerful mainline linux phone,
> and are in to fund a venture to accelerate this now,
Sorry, if I misled you about funding others, directly. NO.
> you may be able to fund current
> team members https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra-team/ right
A materials take-off list for 100% of the hardware you guys are
proposing to build, would be most keen. As an old_fart Rf connected
industry hardass, I still have a few friends. I have many enemies and
here in the US, some are well funded. So, no I do not look to get ' out
in front of these efforts, for a wide variety of reasons. That said
I can help, from the peripheral. Now, like a stated before, a materials
take-off list (100% of what is needed, down to surface mount components
and the corresponding spec sheets, from the vendors, is what would get
me excited. THEN, I can 'shop the list' with folks I know and any number
of companies could build product; that make no difference to me.
I do not know how to be more plain and direct. If you do not have (1) a
matierals take off and the corresponding spec scheet(s) for those
components, you do not have a robust specification, you have a box for
OK, I'll buy the box, any box, as long as it has an armv8 core, SoC
details, ram details and the details of the major components that the
drivers interface with. Missing slots for cellular modem interace chips?
Not a problem, just clearly state that somewhere.
> or alternatively find and fund another established Phone and Case
Wow. I guess I'm not making myself clear. I select componts from
manufacutres of the components and chips (uP,ram,etc) directly. I'm not
wasting my time on some other build, unless it has an exisiting embedded
linux stack without systemd.
That said, you have or anyone knows an established phone vendor (which
opens the door for lots of 'huey') they can drop me an email and we can
chat directly. I build dev kits for those kinds of folks, write the
bootstrap and firmware. So I'd never go to those sorts of vendors
and ask to use their design. New components come out every day that
changes how cell phones are designed. I'm looking to be on the bleeding
edge by waltzing a design spec under the noses of manufactures and their
technical folks to get the latest in hardware. That's why it will cost $$$.
> and goldelico.com engineering, to work together and
> combine their expertise and access to component sourcing, case design,
> production, free software development and the corresponding custom
> hardware development.
OK they look cool. But, in the past, my teams have built things for
vendors like that. I know the guys that design the new Rf chips:: BUDS!
So if they want my help, all they have to do is ask. But they look
competent and self sufficient, so I'm a bit confuse as to what exactly
you are proposing?
I need multicore armv8, at least 4-gig of ddr3/4 ram and access to the
key components. Debian is a no go for me. That is what Linaro is
offering. I hate systemd and it has no place in embedded anything.
> A powerfull, unrestricted mainline linux mobile phone device certainly
> has a market.
I'd take lxqt(5) raw over plasma. Lumina, from the bsd folks looks even
more suited to minimalistic work.
>> I do not read the list, so somebody drop me an email, when you guys
>> coalesce into some form of a converged specification.
> If it is not just investment interest, maybe you are the person that can
> bring together a larger phone manufacturer, that is able to source
> proper hardware at bulk prices for a side-project, with the already
> existing developments from the open source software and hardware
> development players? Connecting the last piece of the puzzle?
Now I think you get it. Please focus and get one or serveral options
(1) have a 100% material take-off list. This is the list of 100%
electronic components needed to build the proposed phone.
(2) the companion 'spec-sheets' (or data file) from the original
manufacture about the components.
THEN I can do majic by shopping where the silicon is
made/designed/packaged and argue (converserse) with folks I know about
component substitions and buildouts to test the proposed designs. Yes,
there is actually quite a bit of magic what I do, but that has happend
for 30 years and cellular<everything> is right up my ally. In fact, I
share this tidbit with you. It's really about shopping the (IoT) aka
California slut style, to get folks with money on board. I already have
a pre-eminent goups of lawyers (yes butt_hole lawyers) cause that is
going to be a key component to get this thing build in the US for my
Actually, there is absolutely why dozens of similar designs cannot find
there way to 'pick and place' machines for production runs in dozens of
OK? We cool?
> In any way, Nikolaus, does the project software at goldelico allow to
> provide a wiki page for gathering a table of components with say
> desired/available/selected/supported/... status?
> A project wiki seems like a good idea.
(50) atta-boys for Chris. I knew you guys already had the core team.
Now get me what I ask for. That pathway, getting the (2) things I asked
for, will get you organized and you will not need me. But, I shall shop
the design(s) just to ensure that somebody somewhere builds several
thousand prototypes, so we can being to ferret out hardware stacks
on actual hardware.
You want me to code? Excellent, NO SYSTEMD, is non-negotiable for me. In
fact, if I may be bold, ditch debian and get a real developers OS,
Gentoo or Alpine. I love Gentoo!
> The basic prerequisite for to run arbitrary free software stacks and
> distributions are hardware drivers. A fully functional device requires
> that the mainline linux kernel has driver modules for all hardware
> components. (Yes, they may still depend on some closed firmwares.)
> As Dr. Schaller wrote, just making hardware and expecting that the open
> software community develops and maintains drivers does not work. If
> hardware drivers are missing, the open source drivers needs to get
> written in order to sell hardware that is "linux mainline" ready
> (usable with common linux distributions). With the golden-delicious
> engineering company he primarily selected components for the GTA04
> board which already had existing drivers, and payed kernel developers
> to write or improve drivers where necessary. Concluding from his
> emails, goldelico ordered the parts and had the board assembled by a
> production plant specialized on custom electronics devices.
> Another thing was implementing proper bootloader and system
> installation methods.
I know a coder that runs circles around Russell King (arm embedded
hall-of-fame) The bitch, as she is called by her friends, has over 300
product designs and has fixed many problem in arm compilers for vendors
over the decades. I like what the good doctor espouses above. I need
armv8-multicore and ddr3/4. Don't worry about the circuit board layout,
I've got a pal that does designs over 100GHz for breakfast, so we'll
'get er done'.
Specs--> material take off --> component spec sheets. Get that together
and throw up a wiki page or 2.
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